I think it should stay illegal that is the started drug to worse addictions.. we already have to many drunk drivers as it is can you imagine all the people who would be getting high then and driving... we all have temptations in life to over come i think drugs are one of them ..Idiots use drugs ...
there are some hidden agendas on congress's part why marijuana is not legal yet. 1. they cant decide exactly how to legalize it, b. they cannt agree on how to tax it. 3. cant decide on how to regulate and classify it. those are the main reasons why its not legal in the U.S yet....just give it time. i bet with in 10 years marijuana will be legalized. it's already happening in state, county, and local legislation. take seattle's initiative 75 for example,
Text of Initiative 75
AN ORDINANCE to Establish a Sensible Marijuana Law Enforcement Policy in Seattle
WHEREAS, Seattle and other Washington taxpayers are burdened by the substantial costs of investigating, arresting, prosecuting and jailing people for charges involving marijuana;
WHEREAS, federal education loans are denied to middle-income and lower-income students pursuant to Congressional amendments to the Higher Education Act where applicant students have been convicted of charges involving marijuana;
WHEREAS, Americans were subjected to more than 700,000 arrests for possession of marijuana and arrests related to marijuana and such arrests accounted for nearly half of all drug arrests in the United States in 2000;
WHEREAS, the failures and harms of the Drug War have fallen most heavily on racial minorities and lower income communities, and no racial or economic group in Washington or the United States has escaped the Drug War unharmed;
Now, Therefore, BE IT ORDAINED BY THE CITY OF SEATTLE AS FOLLOWS:
A new section 12A.20.060 of the Seattle Municipal Code is added to read as follows:
SMC 12A.20.060 Enforcement Priority – Marijuana.
A. The Seattle Police Department and City Attorney’s Office shall make the investigation, arrest and prosecution of marijuana offenses, where the marijuana was intended for adult personal use, the City’s lowest law enforcement priority.
B. On or before December 31, 2002, the President of the City Council shall appoint an eleven (11) member Marijuana Policy Review Panel to assess and report on the effects of this ordinance. The Panel shall consist of two (2) members of the City Council, two (2) citizen members, one (1) drug abuse prevention counselor, one (1) harm reduction advocate, one (1) representative of the Seattle Police Department, two (2) criminal defense attorneys, one (1) representative of the King County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office and one (1) representative of the Seattle City Attorney’s Office. The President of the City Council shall appoint members to vacancies on the Marijuana Policy Review Panel as necessary. The Marijuana Policy Review Panel shall:
1. Elect a chairperson and meet at least quarterly or more frequently as necessary;
2. By March 31, 2003, establish reporting criteria for the Seattle Police Department and City Attorney’s Office to report marijuana arrests and prosecutions; and
3. Submit a comprehensive written report with recommendations to the City Council that will include, but not be limited to, information concerning the public safety, public administration, public health and fiscal impacts of paragraph A. above. This report shall be completed and presented at the first meeting of the full City Council for calendar year 2006.
C. The Seattle Police Department shall report marijuana arrests and the City Attorney’s Office shall report marijuana prosecutions, including those undertaken in Seattle by the King County Prosecutor’s Office for arrests made in Seattle, to the Marijuana Policy Review Panel on a semi-annual basis in compliance with the criteria established by the Panel.
D. Upon consideration of the report and recommendations submitted by the Marijuana Policy Review Panel pursuant to subparagraph B.3. above, the City Council may modify, repeal or let stand this ordinance.
Severability of provisions
If any provision of this ordinance or its application to any person or circumstance is held invalid, the remainder of this ordinance or the application of the terms and provisions to other persons or circumstances shall not be affected.
I think it should stay illegal that is the started drug to worse addictions..
its called "gate way drugs"
yes they are the ones that start more people down the road to me then others. but alcohol is a gateway drug to. and the argument about alcohol is legal then all this stuff about marijunna...
alcohol is legal if your not abusing it.
underage drinking is illegal.
drink and having more then the legal limit is illegal and bout can get you into jail, loss of D/L and criminal consequnces.
texaschickeee wrote: its called "gate way drugs" yes they are the ones that start more people down the road to me then others. but alcohol is a gateway drug to. and the argument about alcohol is legal then all this stuff about marijunna... alcohol is legal if your not abusing it.
Wrong. I can drink as much alcohol as I want. I challenge you to show me a federal law that says I can only drink a certain amount.
texaschickeee wrote: underage drinking is illegal.
Who says that if we legalize drugs we can't set an age limit? Think this through, Chickee. I'm not saying we should legalize drugs carte blanche. I'm saying drugs should be legalized and regulated, just like other legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol are right now. Is anyone listening? Is thing on?
texaschickeee wrote: drink and having more then the legal limit is illegal and bout can get you into jail, loss of D/L and criminal consequnces.
What's the legal limit? I'm not talking about DUI's or even being drunk in public. I'm talking about if I sit my house with a case of whiskey, what federal law says I can't drink the whole damn thing if I want?
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Gi(Rectitude), Yu(Courage), Jin (Benevolence), Rei(Respect), Shin(Honesty), Meiyo (Honor), Chugi(Loyalty).
I have mixed emotions when drug legalization debates are brought up. I typically remain quiet but ya'll have inspired me to believe that it's possible to have an actual debate with no hidden motives or 'I'm right and if you don't agree I think you're stupid' philosophies...so here goes nothing: The following arguments are based upon this tenet-it is not responsible users that cause problems but irresponsible ones.
Americans' addictions to mentally altering or physically affective chemical/natural compositions is perhaps the single most costly thing in this country (ok-maybe second to war). It is widely accepted that more Americans are addicted to caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol than all of the illegal drugs combined. One of the largest factors causing this disparity are the safeties provided by a substance being deemed illegal including: a lack of marketing and corporate backing promoting the substances, social stigmas attached to 'illegal' drug users inhibiting many from trying/using regularly, lack of safety in purchasing/using product discouraging use, etc. Because of the awful fallout from product abuse of the 'legal' drugs (DUI crashes, alcoholic parents, cancer, spending grocery money on cigarettes, dealing with my mother in the morning before she had a cup of coffee, etc), I would be hard pressed to accept the 'Well, they're legal so why not make weed legal?' argument.
Many choose to argue that illegal drugs are available to those who want to get them so we may as well make them legal and regulate it so it only goes to those approved. My counter-argument is: we've done that with alcohol and tobacco so why is it 30x easier for minors to obtain those items than it is for them to obtain cocaine? Don't get me wrong-I'm not naive. I know that in middle/highschool it was fairly simple to get an illegal drug if i had so desired it. However, if the laws in place currently stop one child from trying marijuana, ecstasy, or cocaine-is that not worth it?
Perhaps children's safety is not up to the government to provide. Let's say it should rightfully be done by loving and effective parents who guide their children into becoming individuals capable of making their own 'right' decisions. Let's say we legalize some drugs or to make things interesting, just marijuana. This way we do not infringe upon adults' rights to make their own decision as to what they choose to do to their bodies. Ok. Let's forget the loopholes in the system and pretend like no children will ever be able to obtain access to the drugs so that argument is temporarily thrown out of the window. Only adults smoke weed. How does this benefit the country as a whole? Through taxes earned? Through championing for grown ups' rights? I'm not certain. I do know that even though there would be age restrictions, the drug will still get into irresponsible people's hands: like the mom who'll toke up before driving her kids to soccer practice, or the parents who'll smoke in the baby's room, or the one police officer who'll inevitably become a pothead and use before work, or the airline pilot, or the bus driver, or the young single guy who just suddenly can't find the motivation to go get a job because he still has two buds left, or the ignorant sons of bitches who'll sell they're WIC stamps and cash their unemployment checks just to go but some weed leaving their children to fend for themselves or turn to hooking to get by. All of these things already occur, however; experience tells us that by leaglizing it-we're sure to increase the frequency with which it does.
I know that the costs of investigating, arresting and prosecuting drug cases are tremendous. I know that it's a losing war. I know that because it's not legalized it invites gangsters, mafioso, and the scum of the earth to get involved in drug trafficking. I know that innocent people die because of bad batches of unregulated drugs. I know I'd be pissed if they tried to illegalize alcohol again. I know illegalizing something doesn't stop all kids from trying it. I know marijuana has medicinal uses.
Even though I know all of that...I cannot argue for the legalization of drugs. While many of the pro-legalization arguments make sense to me, it's not worth it just yet in my opinion. I think there are valid reasons for leaglization, I just would never vote for it. It's probably because of my experiences (watching my roomate throw her life away and endanger mine freshman year of college, knowing my good friend will never be in a functional relationship because his mother was a drug addict, growing up in a household with an alcoholic father, watching my brother turn to weed as an escape, seeing the countless families that are torn apart by substance addictions, knowing I could be killed at work (or while off duty for that matter) everyday by an abuser, seller, buyer, or responsible Joe Somebody who made one mistake.
i think the drug problem will always exist in our society no matter what. someday marijuana will be legalized by congress and touted as the answer to the drug problems but in all actuality it will cuase more problems
You bring up good points. And you even make your own counter points. The whole jest of your arguement that I get was this:
You acknowledge the "War on Drugs" is a losing battle and pointless, but you support it anyway. This makes no sense to me, but as Eurphrdis wrote "Talk sense to a fool, and he calls you foolish."
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time.
The one point I would like to argue is that you say it would be easier for children to get legalized drugs. This is simply not the case. Huffing was very popular in my day because it was easy to obtain spray paint or model glue- you didn't need an ID.
Then local ordnances started popping up requiring an age restriction on such items. Low and behold, huffing became less popular and marijuana became more and more common.
If drugs are legalized, does that mean kids won't do them? Of course not. But I do believe it will be harder for them to obtain the drugs.
Even as a cop, I've had students at local schools tell me it's easier to get pot than it is to get alcohol. Sadly, I hear this from students who were in possession of pot.
It's much easier to redirect force than it is to stop it. This is a philosphy in physics and martial arts.
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Gi(Rectitude), Yu(Courage), Jin (Benevolence), Rei(Respect), Shin(Honesty), Meiyo (Honor), Chugi(Loyalty).
Perhaps I didn't make my arguments clear. I do know that the War on Drugs is a losing war however; my point was that the few gains/wins we've gotten from putting up the losing fight have been worth the money and effort that has been lost. I never experimented with illegal drugs because they were illegal. Plain and simple. That's one kid saved. While monetarily it may not make sense to wage the war for one kid. In my opinion, I'm not willing to say-give up the war, the kid's not worth it.
Perhaps it's not the best argument. Just mine. I also disagree with you that marijuana is more easy to obtain than alcohol. While weed certainly is easy for youth to obtain, alcohol/cigarettes was always a whole lot easier to get a hold of in my neck of the woods (probably because it was easier for parents to get a hold of as well). Maybe that's not so where you are.
You also seem to be reverting to the 'well alcohol's legal and regulated' defense. I just don't buy it. I also may be misconstruing your argument in regards to huffing but here's how I'm taking it: Glues/paints were a legal substance for kids to have but eventual regulation (making it illegal for kids to buy) of it lowered kids' usage. You believe this would be the same for weed so we should legalize it but make it illegal for kids to buy it? I'm just trying to make sure I'm following you there.
In any event the main point I was trying to make is the one you've pointed out: that while I certainly have my own beliefs I believe that others have valid points as well. Because of this I do not profess my belief as the correct one. Maybe I'm wrong and legalizing drugs will eventually lower youth usage, lower adult dependance, increase family stability, decrease drug caused/related accidents/deaths, lower street violence, limit the amount of police power needed for drug related calls, etc....BUT no one has CONVINCED me of it yet.
What's the legal limit? I'm not talking about DUI's or even being drunk in public. I'm talking about if I sit my house with a case of whiskey, what federal law says I can't drink the whole damn thing if I want?
I dont give a flying fuck what any one does in their own house.
my point was the legal consequences such as a DWI and PIS. and POssession charges.
slopegrrrl wrote: I never experimented with illegal drugs because they were illegal. Plain and simple.
I never experimented with illegal drugs because my parents threatened to kill me if I did. Plain and simple.
slopegrrrl wrote: You also seem to be reverting to the 'well alcohol's legal and regulated' defense. I just don't buy it.
Well, how many kids with pot do you deal with on a daily basis? I've always found pot on kids more often than alcohol. I can't throw statistics at you, but I can tell you my personal experiences.
slopegrrrl wrote: I also may be misconstruing your argument in regards to huffing but here's how I'm taking it: Glues/paints were a legal substance for kids to have but eventual regulation (making it illegal for kids to buy) of it lowered kids' usage. You believe this would be the same for weed so we should legalize it but make it illegal for kids to buy it?
Yes. Pretty simple. If a drug dealer now sells drugs to a minor or an adult, his penalty is the same. If a store clerk sells alcohol to a minor, he his penalized. If he sells it to an adult, he's not. Drug dealers don't care where their next dollar comes from. Whereas store clerks have to use more discretion.
slopegrrrl wrote: ...BUT no one has CONVINCED me of it yet.
Well, I'm not going to sell you on the idea. It just takes a degree of common sense. However if someone like me, who grew up during the Reagan administration ("JUST SAY NO") can get past the idea, anyone can. All I'm asking is keep an open mind.
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Gi(Rectitude), Yu(Courage), Jin (Benevolence), Rei(Respect), Shin(Honesty), Meiyo (Honor), Chugi(Loyalty).
Well, I'm not going to sell you on the idea. It just takes a degree of common sense. However if someone like me, who grew up during the Reagan administration ("JUST SAY NO") can get past the idea, anyone can. All I'm asking is keep an open mind.
I believe I do keep an open mind (to some degree) or I wouldn't see the merit in your arguments (which I do).
It also seems you've missed some of the finer points of my argument. But alas, this is what happens in debates right? Oh well.
I'm with you Slope, I don't usually get involved in these kinds of debates either...I've seen it on O.com and it get ugly. We're THE OTHER PLACE where people CAN have different opinions for all their own reasons without gettin hashed for it...
That bein said, I see like Slope. I don't want it any easier for drugs to end up in the hands of the adult driving my kid's bus or teachin my kid's class, it's bad enough already. I know legally we aren't makin a dent, but I just don't think we should give up?
As a parent I think it is more my responsibility than the government's to teach my kids "why" they shouldn't (not just the legal reasons). I know all I can do is hope they will make the right decision in the end, but I surely don't want them to be able to get it over the counter!
Just my opinion though....
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And your point is???? Don't have one? Well then shut up and I'll give you one!
I think the biggest "mistake" on the anti-choice movement of drugs his just that:
Mistaking making drugs legal for an "okay" to commit other crimes. Your arguement about drugs being easier to get into the hands for someone who drives a schoolbus is moot. One of the biggest killers in the US is DUIs. MOST DUIs are commited by people who are under the influence of alcohol.
Alcohol is legal, and so by that definition it's the eastiest to be put into the hand of schoolbus drivers.
THat arguement aside, driving under the influence of any substance should always be illegal.
As a side note, I believe the next freedom taken away in this country will be in the name of our children. I hate when people try to use them as an excuse to take away another freedom. If you're that worried about your children, raise them properly. Worried about what would happen in a public school? Home school 'em. Worried about what they eat? Feed them yourself. Worried about them being in a gang? Monitor who they hang out with. Don't have the time or money to do any of that? Don't have kids.
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Gi(Rectitude), Yu(Courage), Jin (Benevolence), Rei(Respect), Shin(Honesty), Meiyo (Honor), Chugi(Loyalty).
. MOST DUIs are commited by people who are under the influence of alcohol. Alcohol is legal, and so by that definition it's the eastiest to be put into the hand of schoolbus drivers.
Cent..
that was my point above. Alcohol is legal unless you are using it in illegal ways. under age drinking, drinking and driving (over the LEGAL limit) and the such.
people typiclaly dont do this enough to get caught unless they have problems with it. Typically when people start with the criminal consequences that is what brings it to their attention that they have a problem with it.
at least thats what has been y case in my line of work.
Silly Blondes Brains are for Brunettes
We're THE OTHER PLACE where people CAN have different opinions for all their own reasons without gettin hashed for it...
And your point is???? Don't have one? Well then shut up and I'll give you one!
