How it is done in L.A.

USofGay · I feel entitled, so answer me darnit

How it is done in L.A.

Photogrrlz · Buttercup Groupie

I feel bad for the dog....

ronin · Beefcakes

I don't understand why they sent the dog, then opened fire. It said he was unarmed. They killed their own K-9. If that's how things are done out west, then I'm glad I'm east. That should be a video of how not to do it.

Photogrrlz · Buttercup Groupie

ronin wrote:

I don't understand why they sent the dog, then opened fire. It said he was unarmed. They killed their own K-9. If that's how things are done out west, then I'm glad I'm east. That should be a video of how not to do it.

How can one tell if it is a gun or not when the suspect repeadtly said he had a gun?????

USofGay · I feel entitled, so answer me darnit

ronin wrote:

I don't understand why they sent the dog, then opened fire. It said he was unarmed. They killed their own K-9. If that's how things are done out west, then I'm glad I'm east. That should be a video of how not to do it.

Moral of the story: Don't threaten the po-po with a flip flop, because you may be dead when they go pop pop!!!

If you listen, the K-9 officer was surprised that they opened fire too. Of course we only see it from one angel, and with what footage is available, but it looks like the suspect didn't even move when the shooting started. Looks like the dog ran in after the shooting started. Perhaps there was an AD, and everyone just joined in with the shooting?

eman2k5 · Banned

Photogrrlz wrote:

ronin wrote:

I don't understand why they sent the dog, then opened fire. It said he was unarmed. They killed their own K-9. If that's how things are done out west, then I'm glad I'm east. That should be a video of how not to do it.

How can one tell if it is a gun or not when the suspect repeadtly said he had a gun?????

dont know but its a stupid thing to say

"i got a gun cuz and it haz 13 rounds" so he got 13 rounds as a gift from the SO

ronin · Beefcakes

I wonder if the dog got loose from the handler. But once when I was doing a building clearance with one other officer, we ran accross a guy who was clearly not sapposed to be there. It was a dark hallway, we had our weapons out, and he wouldn't comply with our orders. He suddenly reached behind him and pointed a t.v. remote at my partner and me. We never fired, because we didn't see a gun. At the time we didn't know what was in his hand, but we were sure it wasn't a gun. It turns out, he was mental and had broke into the building because they had cable t.v. I know shit happens. I just hate to see it when it does. And we really don't see everything that happened in that video. But it's still a shame the dog got shot.

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

UGH! O BULLSHIT!!

I know many of you a LE in here, but that was just bullshit! For god sakes, since when is it a requirement to be STUPID, a fucking coward when you put a badge on!!!!!!!!! FUCK!

-- Edited by eltsacon at 22:05, 2006-10-31

entre new · Et tu, Brute?

ronin wrote:

it's still a shame the dog got shot.

I didn't watch the video. Does anyone know if the dog died?

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

Yea, I'm pretty sure the dumb dog died!!!!! O, I guess I should be the one to say it, BUT I think the dumb person died too..... Geeezzzz

ronin · Beefcakes

econ to what act of stupidity do you refer?

texaschickeee · Seductively Sassy

Sadly, I agree with roin, they did kill their own K9, and it had to be miscommuincation.

This POS stated several times he had a gun, was going to die if he didnt get what he wanted, and then he was shot after many , many many request to toss down the gun. so he was unarmed after the fact. big deal,m LE is to take their word for it, they say it...its there.

if they have NOT searched you, its there.

poor dog, may he rest in peace. I hope he got a proper burial.

USofGay · I feel entitled, so answer me darnit

ronin wrote:

econ to what act of stupidity do you refer?

I think, but I am not sure, that he was refering to the one that started at the begining of the video and ended at the end. It was all stupid on the dead guys part.

ronin · Beefcakes

While I agree completely with you US of A. I thought he was referring to the act of the deputies opening fire. I wanted to be sure.

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

First off, I'm not going to enjoy this,,, I know.

OK, now the fact that the man decided to go against a bunch of trigger-happy cops in the first place was STUPID. Granted!

The fact that he told them he had a gun, but wouldn't show it is a sign of STUPIDITY with a side dish of a mental case. Which the mental problem at that point CLEARLY shows that those particular cops were way too stupid to deal with the situation. (The end result proves that!)

The fact that the officers threatened the dog in the manner they did only pushed the situation to the breaking point. (Which is why it ended the way it did.)

The fact the guy didn't move when they started shooting showed that the officers were a tad bit to trigger happy to be in that situation in the first place.

The fact that they didn't see the FUCKING DOG RUNNING IN TO THE "RANGE" is not only stupid, but down right alarming.

The fact that after they all were down with their O.K. coral production, the audio pretty much sounded more like a bunch of drunks on a hunting expo rather then professional police officers out to serve and protect!!!!!!!!

The fact that when they were done with their, "O shit, damn we fucked up", (which took several mins) they went in (GUNS POINTED WITH SHEILDS) to the dead dog and the seriously fucked up dude! I mean come on. I would have gone in there with a T-shirt and pellet gun at that point! And as long as I could see his hands, and my gun was pointed on is fucking forehead, I wouldn't even be sweating. Not alone shaking like a fucking 8 year old.

I'm sorry. I just don't see anything good from any angle from that situation.

NOW, before I get the typical cop chop shit, which I have gotten many times. I will point out once more that I do have friends that are LE. I do not, however subscribe to the LE is a different class of people. (Which are the bases of all justification no matter what the circumstances when it comes to these kinds of LE things.)

Ok, let the beatings begin……………

ronin · Beefcakes

econ. I'm not going to "beat you" I take it you've never worked in law enforcement. Let me explain what happens in a situation like that to the officers. First off it was a highly stressful situation. We agree that the bad guy was an idiot in the first degree. We agree he was being defiant. So far so good. When you're in a tense situation like that you develop somthing called tunnel vision. You can't see anything else around you but the threat. I don't know how or why the poor dog got into the picture, it's unfortunate, but cops have even shot each other by accident. The bad guy claimed to have a gun. As a cop, you have to assume he does anyway. He wouldn't comply to the commands of the officers. He was escaleting the situation by being uncooperative, and he himself kept saying he was gonna shoot some people. He made threats, which you have to take seriously. I didn't see why the deputies started shooting either, but you can't see everything from that video. I'm very well trained, but I can't second guess the officers in that video. And I really have a hard time understanding your reaction to this. All he needed to do was surrender. I'm sure he would have been allowed tomake his phone call.

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

ronin wrote:

econ. I'm not going to "beat you" I take it you've never worked in law enforcement. Let me explain what happens in a situation like that to the officers. First off it was a highly stressful situation. We agree that the bad guy was an idiot in the first degree. We agree he was being defiant. So far so good. When you're in a tense situation like that you develop somthing called tunnel vision. You can't see anything else around you but the threat. I don't know how or why the poor dog got into the picture, it's unfortunate, but cops have even shot each other by accident. The bad guy claimed to have a gun. As a cop, you have to assume he does anyway. He wouldn't comply to the commands of the officers. He was escaleting the situation by being uncooperative, and he himself kept saying he was gonna shoot some people. He made threats, which you have to take seriously. I didn't see why the deputies started shooting either, but you can't see everything from that video. I'm very well trained, but I can't second guess the officers in that video. And I really have a hard time understanding your reaction to this. All he needed to do was surrender. I'm sure he would have been allowed tomake his phone call.

Well, I have to admit. That is better then US's "YOU WILL RESPECT MY ATHORITIIIIIIII". LOL

As for the tunnel. Yes, I can understand that. And sitting around talking to some LE friends I have heard the stories.

I will listen to the tape again but the only threat I heard him shout out again and again was if the dog was let go he would shoot it. Granted, that's just fucking stupid and in this day and age, fatal. To be honest I have thought long and hard about these situations just because I have seen allot of wrong doing on both sides. Part of me thinks there is a god complex that seems to develop in LE by nature. Another part of me thinks I must just be a pussy that feels for the bastard getting shot. I don't know. And I can't pull a zap and point out every particular on it. But I do know that things just like that leave a bad taste in my mouth. Maybe one day I will understand more why. But for some time, I can honestly say, I don't know.

-- Edited by eltsacon at 23:34, 2006-10-31

ronin · Beefcakes

Let me leave you with one final thought. I pray I never have to shoot anybody. It will probably happen. I work in a small suberb of a big northeastern city. I'm also along a large drug corridor, so you see what might happen. I think that in most ways I'm pretty typical for law enforcement. Granted, there are some guys that are a little trigger happy. But for the most part, most officers are professional. But nothing is perfect. And mistakes do get made. The trick is to learn from them.

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

fair enough.

Monkey Proof · Buttercup is awesomesexycool and smelly too.

eltsacon wrote:

First off, I'm not going to enjoy this,,, I know.

OK, now the fact that the man decided to go against a bunch of trigger-happy cops in the first place was STUPID. Granted!

The fact that he told them he had a gun, but wouldn't show it is a sign of STUPIDITY with a side dish of a mental case. Which the mental problem at that point CLEARLY shows that those particular cops were way too stupid to deal with the situation. (The end result proves that!)

The fact that the officers threatened the dog in the manner they did only pushed the situation to the breaking point. (Which is why it ended the way it did.)

The fact the guy didn't move when they started shooting showed that the officers were a tad bit to trigger happy to be in that situation in the first place.

The fact that they didn't see the FUCKING DOG RUNNING IN TO THE "RANGE" is not only stupid, but down right alarming.

The fact that after they all were down with their O.K. coral production, the audio pretty much sounded more like a bunch of drunks on a hunting expo rather then professional police officers out to serve and protect!!!!!!!!

The fact that when they were done with their, "O shit, damn we fucked up", (which took several mins) they went in (GUNS POINTED WITH SHEILDS) to the dead dog and the seriously fucked up dude! I mean come on. I would have gone in there with a T-shirt and pellet gun at that point! And as long as I could see his hands, and my gun was pointed on is fucking forehead, I wouldn't even be sweating. Not alone shaking like a fucking 8 year old.

I'm sorry. I just don't see anything good from any angle from that situation.

NOW, before I get the typical cop chop shit, which I have gotten many times. I will point out once more that I do have friends that are LE. I do not, however subscribe to the LE is a different class of people. (Which are the bases of all justification no matter what the circumstances when it comes to these kinds of LE things.)

Ok, let the beatings begin……………

i agree with Econ, the entire situation could've, should've been handled differently. there are plenty of less the lethal weapons in the LASD's arsenal that if used properly would have giving that situation a happy ending. but of course thats just my opinion.

ronin · Beefcakes

I disagree. I think shooting the dog was a major fuck up, but the suspect clearly wasn't being cooperative. I see this stuff in my area a lot. The bad guy wasn't going to surrender peacefully, no matter what. They could have wasted more time, and sat there and pleaded with the guy some more. I can't say that they didn't fire a little prematurely, but I think it would have come to this anyway. Did he or did he not have a gun? He kept saying he did. You are taught to assume that anybody can be carrying. While I will agree there are less leathal weapons available. Would you have like to be the one to get close enough to try and use one? Remember, he's the one that threatened the officers. He's the one that kept talking shit. If he had complied do you think he would have been shot then? He acted like he more or less wanted to get killed. The cops wern't there to give him a good samaratin award. I think he put his pregnant girlfriend in the hospital, and that's why they were after him. Yes there were mistakes made. But I think the end result would have been the same.

ejay · Bad, just plain bad

Jez US, I don't know what kind of US cop you are (USDA, VA Hospital, Lonnie bin, Ranger, Border Patrol, US Treasury, or otherwise) but if you work in LA, you know that the only people who "roll" like that are the asshats in LAPD. I say that lightly because they are not all alike.

Monkey Proof · Buttercup is awesomesexycool and smelly too.

ronin wrote:

I think shooting the dog was a major fuck up

thats an understatement!
but the suspect clearly wasn't being cooperative.

who ever is?
I see this stuff in my area a lot.

oh!?
They could have wasted more time, and sat there and pleaded with the guy some more.

that may have been the best thing to do
I can't say that they didn't fire a little prematurely

going out on a limb here, i think they did
but I think it would have come to this anyway.

i think not. WE as LE officers control the situation. if we need all night to wait out the suspect then wait him out. the suspect was contained on the porch and not going anywhere. also, he did not threating himself in any way...so he was not a threat to himself. it's that fact there that has me decided that waiting him out would have been the best option
While I will agree there are less leathal weapons available. Would you have like to be the one to get close enough to try and use one?

there are some very basic less then lethal weapons that can be deployed from a safe distance
If he had complied do you think he would have been shot then?

hopefully not

ronin · Beefcakes

Yes. Ohio. If you havn't heard, we've been voted the poorest city in the country, and to add insult to injury, we are now among the most violent according to the FBI statistics. Having had training in psychology and sociology, he was attempting to escalate the situation. Would I have fired? Probably not. But I'm also looking at this through a video. What else happened before that? Do you know? While I agree with most of what you've said. I'm not willing to condemn somone else when I wasn't there to see the whole thing. Maybe I'm just more callous than you. The dog getting killed bothered me a lot more than the suspect did.

Monkey Proof · Buttercup is awesomesexycool and smelly too.

oh trust me, me being a K9 handler watching that video was pretty hard.

i agree that the subject escalated the situation (who doesn't agree with that). but did he escalate it high enough to cause the deputies to fire their weapons?

maybe the situation could have been de-escalated if the K9 handlers pulled their dogs out of view from the suspect.

it appears that as soon as the K9 was released the deputies fired their weapons. i think the K9 was deliberately released and not by accident as it was speculated earlier. but the handler made the mistake of not yelling "dog of leash".

edited for spelling

-- Edited by MP_handler at 05:01, 2006-11-01

ronin · Beefcakes

You have no idea how much I envy you some nights, because you have a K-9. And my dept dosn't.

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

MP_handler wrote:

oh trust me, me being a K9 handler watching that video was pretty hard.

i agree that the subject escalated the situation (who doesn't agree with that). but did he escalate it high enough to cause the deputies to fire their weapons?

maybe the situation could have been de-escalated if the K9 handlers pulled their dogs out of view from the suspect.

it appears that as soon as the K9 was released the deputies fired their weapons. i think the K9 was deliberately released and not by accident as it was speculated earlier. but the handler made the mistake of not yelling "dog of leash".

RIGHT!

That's how I see it. Now I don't want to do the "throw this in a stereo type situation, or take credit from your jobs", but fuck! You are being paid to sit there as long as it takes. I mean come on. The guy obviously wasn't that bright! I would think it would take some time for someone like that to think it through! And he was already complaining he was uncomfortable anyway which means the next card was due to be played one way or another. If he wasn't bluffing, they still would have been able to do the OK coral shoot out.

And if you have a bulletproof shield in front of you why is the range an issue anyway? Granted, it would be dangerous, and nerve racking, but shit, your not working at McDonalds! Like I said before. I just don't know, but that just didn't look, feel, or smell right!

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

BTW, I have watched that a dozen times. I did notice some things that might explain the dog problem. If you watch the shadow towards the end, you can see the dog is up front being held back. And what is strange is that the dog seem so be almost jumping at the end of the leash. Which, when I first noticed it, I thought, "I bet that shadow moving started the whole thing. But, at the time of the shooting there was no movement. I'm sure the k9 handlers are trained well, but it seems to me if you are up front holding the dog, and everyone BEHIND YOU starts firing, the noise and shock waves would get your attention pretty quick. Maybe enough to startle to the point he let go of the leash. That's what I see anyway.

entre new · Et tu, Brute?

MP_handler wrote:

there are plenty of less the lethal weapons in the LASD's arsenal that if used properly would have giving that situation a happy ending

I'm confused. Is this the LASD or the LAPD?

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

entre new wrote:

MP_handler wrote:

there are plenty of less the lethal weapons in the LASD's arsenal that if used properly would have giving that situation a happy ending

I'm confused. Is this the LASD or the LAPD?

Now I'm confused. What does that really have to do with anything?