Gun Safety for Kids

KatScratch · Bad kitty....in the best possible way

Gun Safety for Kids

daShiznit · bad mamma jamma

Agreed. I think that any safety course--TAUGHT PROPERLY AND EFFICIENTLY--is a great idea. I think that it's a great idea for the instructor to be LE related. In fact, I would like to see this position go to a working LE officer and make it part of his job.

Naturally, there will always be those fuck ups that will do something retarded, blame it on the school, class, community, LE agency, and of course Marilyn Manson..But when it comes down to it, education is better than ignorance, even if it does encourage curiousity.

God forbid parents have to start parenting though....

KatScratch · Bad kitty....in the best possible way

As a parent, I can honestly say I don't know enough about guns to teach my kids and would prefer they learn it from an instructor. I mean I can shoot and understand safety and all, but I would prefer my kids learn it the right way and not the "cowboy" way....

Centurion44 · charges-like-rhino

Yeah, I don't think you'll find too many people that disagree with ya. Good idea. I never considered a gun rights debate here but if anyone wants a piece, I'm rarin to go. That's my favorite debate topic. :)

Date: Feb 21, 2006

Hunter ed classes and instructors are full of horse pucky. Good instructors could make a world of difference... but I haven't met one yet that wasn't egotistical and full of himself and posturing... so abrasive that it made focusing on the material a challange. and at best the "students" crammed through so much material in such a short time they pop out the other side with a certificate that now allowes them to legally handle and discharge a firearm. Oh and age is not a deciding factor here either.

Date: Feb 21, 2006

I think that everyone should have a lot of basic skills training as a requirement.... safe gun handling, marksmanship, and care of the equipment rank high in my opinion, as do 1st aid and CPR. ... If they aren't yet, I think every student should be required to have emergency training, at least one class in hands-on self-defence, be able to drive a stickshift, balance a checkbook, work within a budget, be required to put in at lest 50 hours of community service, know how to cook, and spend at least 2 full days in municiple court observing.

Date: Feb 21, 2006

oh.. forgot something.... on the subject of instructor.... I agree that experienced militery beats the pants off of "hunter ed instructors" ..... doesnt take a whole lot to get certified to teach hunter's ed... any turnip can achieve that....and.... again it is as kat said... the real way... or the cowboy way.... Takes a whole lot more (like integrity, character, self control, and experience) to be seasoned in the service, as opposed to some hunter that has been hunting for years the way his pappy taught him...... and woke up one day and decided that he wants to wear a uniform and a badge and "be" someone of "authority". (kind a like a wanna be cop) and I'd much rather have my kid(s), grandkids, neices and nephews exposure to correct handling come from a REAL authority in the area.

I think that if taught in school, the quality and caliber of education needs to be high and intelligent... focus on understanding firearms, much actual hands on of loaded and unloaded firearms. So many people are so afraid of guns... i firmly believe that it is because (a) they dont understand them, and because (B) all they have is second, third and 4th hand info to go on.... like gossip or prejudice.

wow... I wrote all that? sorry folks if I offended anyone. this is a hot topic for me, and I believe it is much misunderstood and miligned. (side note: Logistics dictates that there must be decent hunter ed instructors somewhere , I've just been very unimpressed with the quality and professionalism of the ones I've observed...)

zap · texaschickeee translator

<deep sigh> Alright...here we go....

I AM both an NRA and an Ohio Outdoor Skills Instructor (both Hunter and Trapper Ed)

That being said...I have SEEN some of the instructors Scarecrow is talking about. BUT, those are very much in the minority for the past 20 years or so.

The problem happens when you take the line of thinking that Scarecrow has about what is important and should be taught. Everyone likes 'gun night' in the course. BUT, it is one of the LEAST important issues and subjects taught in the class.

Before you respond...consider this: The most important thing to teach is also the hardest thing to teach.... ATTITUDE! If I can teach a kid WHY it is IMPORTANT to learn the right way to clean a gun, or learn the proper sight picture, or know how to shoot well, or follor proper safety precautions.... he WILL FIND A WAY TO LEARN FROM THERE!

SO, I have ALWAYS believed that basic gun safety should be taught in schools. Why? Glad you asked! Because there are more and more people who do not know guns as an inanimate tool that is neither good or evil. Those kids have no one to teach them the truth about guns, or the proper safety if they should find one someplace.

My kids knows the drill.... a gun is NOT a toy. There is no such thing as an unloaded gun as far as he is concerned...and he knows that anytime he wants to and I can work it in (after this BS court stuff is over with) I'll take him and let him shoot a REAL gun... NO fantasy or make believe necessary.

It does remove the taboo and keeps him from making...or letting another kid in his presence make a bad mistake if they find a gun someplace.

</rant off> ........for now

OH...and on the subject of LE or military instructors only.... No dice. LE instructors are more typically hollier than thou than dedicated volunteer instructors are. Best of both worlds is someone like me... a boot in both worlds.

-- Edited by zap at 15:59, 2006-02-21

zap · texaschickeee translator

scarecrow wrote:

oh.. forgot something.... on the subject of instructor.... I agree that experienced militery beats the pants off of "hunter ed instructors" ..... doesnt take a whole lot to get certified to teach hunter's ed... any turnip can achieve that....and.... again it is as kat said... the real way... or the cowboy way.... Takes a whole lot more (like integrity, character, self control, and experience) to be seasoned in the service, as opposed to some hunter that has been hunting for years the way his pappy taught him...... and woke up one day and decided that he wants to wear a uniform and a badge and "be" someone of "authority". (kind a like a wanna be cop)

That comment just proves you have no friggin clue what you are talking about. In case you are only mistaken ....let me clue you in. You are WRONG.

zap · texaschickeee translator

scarecrow wrote:

I think that if taught in school, the quality and caliber of education needs to be high and intelligent... focus on understanding firearms, much actual hands on of loaded and unloaded firearms. So many people are so afraid of guns... i firmly believe that it is because (a) they dont understand them, and because (B) all they have is second, third and 4th hand info to go on.... like gossip or prejudice. wow... I wrote all that? sorry folks if I offended anyone. this is a hot topic for me, and I believe it is much misunderstood and miligned. (side note: Logistics dictates that there must be decent hunter ed instructors somewhere , I've just been very unimpressed with the quality and professionalism of the ones I've observed...)

ugh....... Couple things wrong with that one. Hands on is good...in an NRA course where the instructor gets paid and can spend the extra time if needed. BUT, I don't want the liability of having a kid in a school, or a hunter ed class load a gun and shoot someone and then blame me for teaching him/her how to load the gun in the first place.

Remember...ATTITUDE is the most important. Teach they WHY they should LEARN THE RIGHT WAY......then let them find someone who can teach them hands on. If they don't have the proper attitude....they won't go that far and you have given them nothing that can endanger you or anyone else.

KatScratch · Bad kitty....in the best possible way

Wow! That was a mouthful and a half Scarecrow! I have seen the "Outdoor Ed" you are referring to as well, and I wouldn't let them have a BB gun! I have taught my kids the basic about guns (like any good parent should). 1. THEY ARE NOT TOYS, was the first thing I beat into their heads. My family has a lot of guns/rifles between them and I didn't want my kids to be the ones to have an accident because I assumed they would know better! (Way too many parents make that assumption in my opinion.)

I need to do some research into that news clip from this morning and see what kind of instructor they had in mind. I believe 100% that it should be LE or military. I think that is where the right amount of attitude and respect can be instilled in the kids. They are going to laugh off an outdoor ed teacher just like they would their science teacher. But a cop or military officer, they have a "way" about them that I think would get through to a kid and make them want to listen and read the material. Plus, LE or Military has the background (history) to answer questions and give examples of good/bad attitude and most importantly, the consequences. You're just not going to get that from Joe Blow hunter???? (Nothing personal Zap....just been my experience).

I'm curious, has this type of thing come up in any other states other than Ohio? If so, any imput about the outcome?

KatScratch · Bad kitty....in the best possible way

daShiznit wrote:

I think that it's a great idea for the instructor to be LE related. In fact, I would like to see this position go to a working LE officer and make it part of his job.

I know that the Dare program runs for a week at most schools, but they were talking about it running a semester. Could LE do that? I was unsure about that concept, that's why I suggested retired LE....

zap · texaschickeee translator

KatScratch wrote:

Wow! That was a mouthful and a half Scarecrow! I have seen the "Outdoor Ed" you are referring to as well, and I wouldn't let them have a BB gun! I have taught my kids the basic about guns (like any good parent should). 1. THEY ARE NOT TOYS, was the first thing I beat into their heads. My family has a lot of guns/rifles between them and I didn't want my kids to be the ones to have an accident because I assumed they would know better! (Way too many parents make that assumption in my opinion.) I need to do some research into that news clip from this morning and see what kind of instructor they had in mind. I believe 100% that it should be LE or military. I think that is where the right amount of attitude and respect can be instilled in the kids. They are going to laugh off an outdoor ed teacher just like they would their science teacher. But a cop or military officer, they have a "way" about them that I think would get through to a kid and make them want to listen and read the material. Plus, LE or Military has the background (history) to answer questions and give examples of good/bad attitude and most importantly, the consequences. You're just not going to get that from Joe Blow hunter???? (Nothing personal Zap....just been my experience). I'm curious, has this type of thing come up in any other states other than Ohio? If so, any imput about the outcome?

I think you two have no idea of the professionalism in the ranks of the Outdoors Skills Instructors these days.

One thing you both miss is the fact that OSI are trained to work with kids in those situations. LE is typically not. Military is not. The respect commanded by authority is just that. It has nothing to do with the fact that the guy in front is LE or Military.... but more the way s/he acts and dresses. It really does.

Been there done that....trust me. I've no reason to lie to you guys about it. I already have my certs, letters of appreciateion, and more "incentive items" than I use.

Oh another thing.... the NRA has a school program that really works well...its the "Eddie Eagle" program. I'll see if I can hunt down the link.

-- Edited by zap at 16:20, 2006-02-21

zap · texaschickeee translator

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/index.asp

KatScratch · Bad kitty....in the best possible way

yah, but I'm thinkin more in the high school setting as a class offered at the high school. That's what they were talkin about on the news, a class put in as an elective for credit toward graduation. I think that LE or ex military would work really well there....

zap · texaschickeee translator

KatScratch wrote:

yah, but I'm thinkin more in the high school setting as a class offered at the high school. That's what they were talkin about on the news, a class put in as an elective for credit toward graduation. I think that LE or ex military would work really well there....

Maybe. I don't think a SAFETY class is best taught in high school though. Marksmanship maybe (mandatory safety inclued)

BUT, if the goal is to teach kids at risk of the dangers of playing with a gun they find....you need to do it MUCH earlier than high school.

KatScratch · Bad kitty....in the best possible way

From what I have found out, this was concerning safety and marksmanship....

And I agree, the basics need taught much sooner, and that's where I think the parents come into play. And if a child shows a real interest (not just a cowboy craze) then maybe get them into some kind of class offered locally. But I also like the idea of it being offered as an elective in High School.....If it's taught properly.

zap · texaschickeee translator

With that I can agree

*checking my temperature*

Bread Styx · Bad Bread!!

Kip Kinkel showed a deep interest in guns and his father taught him how to use one safely.

Wonder if he followed the lessons taught when he murdered a number of students at his school. Didnt he murder his dad, too. What irony.

Some kids have no business with a toothpick in their possession much less a loaded firewarm. I am not sending my child to school to learn how to use a gun; there are separate private avenues for such a thing and I can find them if I need to. Lets get back to teaching our kids how to read and write for God sakes.....they arent even doing that well anymore. There are so many children who read at the 5th grade levelgraduating from high schools all over the country and if this suggestion is approved...we will have a nice hunk of illiterate morons who can use a gun safely.

Happy Happy joy, joy!

I cant wait.

-- Edited by Styx at 17:28, 2006-02-21

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

Boy o boy. Well, now being the new "Darth Debater", I guess I should throw in my two cents. Background - NRA member, have guns, have kids.

That last post concerned me I think, (hope I didn't miss read it, seem to have that problem), the fact a kid killed his father and fellow students with a gun probably had nothing to do with the fact he had training. The reality of it is that shooting a gun is pretty simp, pull the trigger. Now, how many times you have to pull it to get the job done may be lowered with the right training. But seriously, teaching kids about guns is never going to be PC. BUT it is very important, (in my opinion). I got a 22 when I was 8. But before I got to shoot it my father did something to me I will always remember. I had to shoot his gun first. It was a 30 - 6. Now, for those who don’t know, that’s a small cannon. And to an 8 year old a seriously painful experience that lasted days. Needless to say, to this day I think of that EVERYTIME I am ready to shoot a gun. For me, it put it in perspective and from the very beginning it took the “FUN” out of it. I can say it “kept my wits about me”, though I’m sure that’s against some child endangerment law now. From that time one making sure I was holding it right was a matter of self-preservation and the added fear kept me from doing stupid things with it. That might not be official training, but to me it proves that there is a big ass difference between handing a kid a gun, and teaching him what it is all about. The latter is just better.

As for training with a hunter vs. a military or cop. Well logically, the cop would seem to be the best choice even though they might use their gun the least. The reason is because every time something goes wrong with a gun they are the ones to see it first hand. Not to mention it might start weeding out the fear “some” cops have about every tom dick and Harry having a gun.

Now, ZAP, I am sorry to say I have a hard time agreeing with you for a few reasons. One, you are defending the negative general consensus –( hunter trainer) , with such a passion and trying to back it up by holding up a few certs saying, “see, I know what I’m talking about”. Well, that thinking might work for the CEO of radio shack, and most politics, but really, I think someone who has had professional training, probably shot some people, and/or has seen the good bad and ugly first hand on a daily basis, would know better then someone who watches the video’s you probably watched to get those certs. I’m not belittling your training. I’m just putting it in perspective. I know a few people with your certs, and frankly I get along with them very well until they start talking about their certs and how everyone else is clueless. Annoying at best. Though I do agree it should be taught before high school, but that get very dangerous quickly. It should be done by parents first. But lets face it, half of them are clueless as well.

Ok, maybe it was a nickels worth.

--- Anything I said can’t be held accountable against me. I am old and a boater in a state full of ice which make me a little,,,,,,,, crankeeeeeeeeeeeee !!!! I need my mini-me---

-- Edited by eltsacon at 20:21, 2006-02-21

zap · texaschickeee translator

I wasn't talking about the 'certs' to be qualified to teach the classes on behalf of the state. Those take much more than watching a few movies. Seriously, you guys really don't seem to understand...or even want too. I was referring to the recognition certs for 15+ years served.

Actually, game protectors are normally (at least in this part of our state and I think in most states outside major metropolitan areas) better versed on what happens when a stupid thing happens with a gun. We are trained at length on that sort of thing.

Remember, I have LE training, I know what that kind of gun training is like and it is NOT geared toward kids. Hunter Ed is. NRA First Steps Pistol is the semi adult class that teaches the basics.

Besides...there is nothing to say that a team cannot be employed with the strengths from BOTH worlds, similarly to the NRA Personal Protection in the Home course. I have to have an OPOTA certified instructor or an Attorney teach certain parts of that class.

Date: Feb 21, 2006

scarecrow wrote:

Hunter ed classes and instructors are full of horse pucky. Good instructors could make a world of difference... but I haven't met one yet that wasn't egotistical and full of himself and posturing... so abrasive that it made focusing on the material a challange.

need I say more?

texaschickeee · Seductively Sassy

I have no idea whats in ohio.(im from TEXAS) but non the less, all kids need some form of training regarding guns. Be it a lecute that talks about the deadlyy consequence sof playing with them, having a trained person teach them to shot (parents approval is a must) and not making it a taboo like so many do. thats what make the gun soo darn attractive. making it taboo and a mystry.

i think that if kids could hear frmo a 3rd party that this is what a gun is, how it work, what consequences it can have .....and take that mystry and gangsta crap out they might not be soi dangerous wiht it.

zap · texaschickeee translator

scarecrow wrote:

scarecrow wrote: Hunter ed classes and instructors are full of horse pucky. Good instructors could make a world of difference... but I haven't met one yet that wasn't egotistical and full of himself and posturing... so abrasive that it made focusing on the material a challange. need I say more?

.........Only if you planned to field an intellegent thought

Date: Feb 21, 2006

texaschickeee wrote:

I have no idea whats in ohio.(im from TEXAS) but non the less, all kids need some form of training regarding guns. Be it a lecute that talks about the deadlyy consequence sof playing with them, having a trained person teach them to shot (parents approval is a must) and not making it a taboo like so many do. thats what make the gun soo darn attractive. making it taboo and a mystry. i think that if kids could hear frmo a 3rd party that this is what a gun is, how it work, what consequences it can have .....and take that mystry and gangsta crap out they might not be soi dangerous wiht it.

you have a lot of good points.

Date: Feb 21, 2006

eltsacon wrote:

to an 8 year old a seriously painful experience that lasted days. Needless to say, to this day I think of that EVERYTIME I am ready to shoot a gun.

Ditto: I was knocked on my butt the first time I fired a shotgun. Couldnt tell you what it was but that definately made a permenant impression on me. I have immense respect for firearms. period.

As for training with a hunter vs. a military or cop. Well logically, the cop would seem to be the best choice even though they might use their gun the least. The reason is because every time something goes wrong with a gun they are the ones to see it first hand. Not to mention it might start weeding out the fear “some” cops have about every tom dick and Harry having a gun.

Dual purpose, good idea, and again... I would stress a seasoned cop (many years of actual active duty, not just many years carrying the "title". This generation can spot posers a mile away. Communication with teenagers is an art and a skill, and it takes a certain type of personality and character. These classes Kat spoke about were geared for highschool students.

I’m just putting it in perspective. I know a few people with your certs, and frankly I get along with them very well until they start talking about their certs and how everyone else is clueless. Annoying at best.

me too. One guy in Lancaster, Ohio got his 15+ service recognition cert and he hadnt even taught or sat in on a single hunter ed class in more than 7 years. What kind of BS is that?!?!?!?!   Sort of blew the credibility of that whole certification for me. Don't get me wrong, if an instructor is volunteering his/her time teaching at least 4 hunter classes a year, every year, by the time they've done it for 15+ years, that person definately has my respect. THAT selflessness and community service, and desire to help others is deserving recognition.

As much as I think this has great potential for a high school class, I think there are a lot of serious bugs that need to be worked out and concidered, thoroughly, befor implimenting.

BTW I learned how to use a bow in a public school. (with real arrows) We never hit or killed each other!

Centurion44 · charges-like-rhino

Styx wrote:

Kip Kinkel showed a deep interest in guns and his father taught him how to use one safely.

Yes, and I'm sure Dale Earnhardt's(OMG I don't watch NASCAR found out I spelled his last name right- I have lived in the south too long) father taught him to drive. Maybe he shouldn't have.

See how assinine your statement sounds when put into perspective? If someone has the desire to kill another ingrained them, for whatever reason, they are going to do it. The means don't matter.

I think gun safety should be taught like DARE just a few days out of the whole year. And this shouldn't be a class to teach them to become expert marksmen, it's safety for everyone. Teach them the 3 laws of gun safety, and add another: never pick up a gun until an adult supervisor tells you it's ok.

I agree that target practice and stuff like that should be taught by the parent or privately. Right now I just have my little sis taught well enough to reload a magazine- for when the bluehelmets come.

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

Blue helmets? LOL Nice. Don't forget the black helicopters. LOL

Scarecrow - "Dual purpose, good idea, and again... I would stress a seasoned cop (many years of actual active duty, not just many years carrying the "title". This generation can spot posers a mile away. Communication with teenagers is an art and a skill, and it takes a certain type of personality and character. These classes Kat spoke about were geared for highschool’ students."

Yea, I guess I didn't stress that enough. But you’re right

ZAP – Is it just me on this everyone??? Seriously, it’s not about certs man! I have certs in life guard, cpr, boat safety, and even the CBD for training others in boat inspections. I also have certs for boat repair out the kazoos. Know what it means? Not a damn thing. I know people with the exact same certs that I have and I wouldn’t trust them with a row boat!! The only purpose of certs is to convince “those” who don't have a clue, that “you and I” do. (And also to make insurance companies happier for the same reason.) But it doesn't mean dick. LIVING the field you work in IS where it is at. AKA experience. And sorry man, having a cert to say you have had certs for a period of time is,,, well ridiculous. I have worked with guys that wouldn't know what a cert looks like, but can do amazing shit because THEY HAVE BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. Regardless weather they have a damn cert or not. So please,,,, please stick to the why's and how's and not,,, I said so because I have a cert. It is annoying to those who know what that’s worth. Now you are obviously involved in this field and may/should have some really good input about it. Please share it without the cert says so speech. Scarecrow, catscratch have good points with good reasonable arguments as to why. You are saying no, and not explaining why. Now I am from Ohio and I know this state has changed its gun laws quite a bit so I’m sure there is allot happing/changing. What, to who, and if you have all this stuff, what have you heard coming down the hill in regards to firearm training for kids in school? You know,,, input.?

zap · texaschickeee translator

eltsacon wrote:

ZAP – Is it just me on this everyone??? Seriously, it’s not about certs man! I have certs in life guard, cpr, boat safety, and even the CBD for training others in boat inspections. I also have certs for boat repair out the kazoos. Know what it means? Not a damn thing. I know people with the exact same certs that I have and I wouldn’t trust them with a row boat!! The only purpose of certs is to convince “those” who don't have a clue, that “you and I” do. (And also to make insurance companies happier for the same reason.) But it doesn't mean dick. LIVING the field you work in IS where it is at. AKA experience. And sorry man, having a cert to say you have had certs for a period of time is,,, well ridiculous. I have worked with guys that wouldn't know what a cert looks like, but can do amazing shit because THEY HAVE BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. Regardless weather they have a damn cert or not. So please,,,, please stick to the why's and how's and not,,, I said so because I have a cert. It is annoying to those who know what that’s worth. Now you are obviously involved in this field and may/should have some really good input about it. Please share it without the cert says so speech. Scarecrow, catscratch have good points with good reasonable arguments as to why. You are saying no, and not explaining why. Now I am from Ohio and I know this state has changed its gun laws quite a bit so I’m sure there is allot happing/changing. What, to who, and if you have all this stuff, what have you heard coming down the hill in regards to firearm training for kids in school? You know,,, input.?

First of all. I was not the one who suggested a cert gives anything other than longevity of service and EXPERIENCE and PROFESSIONALISM in the CLASSROOM. You made the other ASSumptions. (btw...I was teaching about 7 classes a year.)

I mentioned the cert only to say that I have PUT in much more time than most. I have taught and certified many more kids and adults than most. I am skilled in the classroom teaching these principles to kids....much more so than most cops ever have the chance too with the exception of maybe a DARE officer.

The qualifications for initial certification, and requalification are more strict and demand more professionalism than ever before.

OH...and I've been there and done that too. I just wanted to take it to the next level and give that experience to others. I think that is the case for most of the instructors I've met. Most of them are very knowledgeable and professional. Just like you see on the news, not every cop knows his shit or is worthy of the badge. It is the same in every endeavor.

Now, if you want to ignore the input I've already givin you because I have a service cert from the chief of the division becasue of longevity. It really is your loss.

I don't teach kids (although I do show them) how to load say a pump shotgun, because it is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT to teach them to have the proper attitude and LEARN how to do it right ... regardless of who is showing them. My main point when I show them how to load that gun is that if they don't know how to work it and make it safe without guessing....DON"T TOUCH IT!!

I think this is just one example of how people who speak without knowing what they talk about show up. They don't understand how much more important it is to teach the stuff that is hard and not as fun. They think everyone should learn the fun stuff like how to clean a 1911 or some such (insert your favorite firearm of choice) That just shows they have NO training. No professionalism in the subject of teaching kids. You have to go beyond the surface and teach the underlying principles if you are going to keep these kids safe. You have to teach them HOW TO THINK with the right attitude in order to give them the tools so they can make good choices in a bad situation. That is what hunter ed is all about. If the kid is dedicated with the right attitude, he will find someone knowlegable to teach him. I did.

The Eddie Eagle program is the best thing out there to keep kids safe. I posted the link before....did you look at it? Or did you ignore it because someone with a 'cert' posted it?

If you want to teach kids what to do when they find a gun someplace...so they don't get hurt or hurt others...THAT is the program that is DESIGNED to go into schools. It is not political, it is safety for kids who would have no other way of knowing how to act around a real gun and who may have no one else that can teach them.

I understand Styx's comments and feelings. But with all due respect to her (and I do so greatly), I don't think she is labeling the problem correctly. Gun safety in schools is NOT about teaching kids to load or shoot. It is about teaching kids who have no one else to teach them what NOT TO DO! If you find a gun DONT TOUCH IT! etc. It is geared toward kids of the age that are most vulnerable to accidental shootings by finding guns. Most of us here are tied at some length to the LE community. How many times does a POS get chased and throws away something that isn't found? Like a .25 auto that looks about the same size as a squirt gun?

The kid that finds that gun while playing has probably never seen a real gun before. Their parents most likely haven't either. Who is going to teach them to not point it at a friend even if they are just playing. Who is going to teach them NOT to pull the trigger?? Who? Is it going to be someone sitting in front of a computer bitching about others credentials not being impressive? Or is it going to be someone who is putting their personal time where their mouth is to get those certs and who is actually doing something about it and trying to address the problem?

I am cool to the idea of a firearms related class in high school. I don't have a problem with it other than some of those kids are going to be problem kids. If it is offered in school, you have to have lower standards to be 'fair'. I don't think you can afford to have lowered standards or problem children/adults around firearms. At that age, they can find someone to teach them outside school. The little guys in 2nd and 3rd grade do not have that option! They are the ones we need to focus on and protect.

-- Edited by zap at 09:09, 2006-02-22

-- Edited by zap at 09:40, 2006-02-22

damned spelling

-- Edited by zap at 10:13, 2006-02-22

Bread Styx · Bad Bread!!

Centurion44 wrote:

Styx wrote: Kip Kinkel showed a deep interest in guns and his father taught him how to use one safely. Yes, and I'm sure Dale Earnhardt's(OMG I don't watch NASCAR found out I spelled his last name right- I have lived in the south too long) father taught him to drive. Maybe he shouldn't have. See how assinine your statement sounds when put into perspective? If someone has the desire to kill another ingrained them, for whatever reason, they are going to do it. The means don't matter. I think gun safety should be taught like DARE just a few days out of the whole year. And this shouldn't be a class to teach them to become expert marksmen, it's safety for everyone. Teach them the 3 laws of gun safety, and add another: never pick up a gun until an adult supervisor tells you it's ok. I agree that target practice and stuff like that should be taught by the parent or privately. Right now I just have my little sis taught well enough to reload a magazine- for when the bluehelmets come.

Assinine(dont like that word)....no......just an emotional thought. Learning how to use anything safely does not come with a guarantee Kip K. has problems and more than likely would have used a gun no matter what his dad taught him. That was written with emotion and obviously not a good example of why I feel this is not a good idea. (Humbly lowers head)

Now, I agree with the teaching the rules of safety..heck , I learned that in Girl Scouts......which was just a review of what I learned at home.

I dont have a problem with children learning to safely use guns...I wish my father had taught me instead of just telling me, "You see my guns or anyone elses...you tell an adult." I am from a hunting family and saw what guns did....I was a smart kid and curious, but not stupid.

The idea you have to incorporate gun safety into a short series of lessons is actually a good idea. A semester long class involving the actual use of firearms is not. I have a problem with the school systems taking on a responsibilty that a parent has, but a program similar to DARE is actually not a bad idea.

Perhaps you can pioneer that idea.