Gun Safety for Kids

KatScratch · Bad kitty....in the best possible way

RE: Gun Safety for Kids

zap · texaschickeee translator

I was not referring to you Kat

KatScratch · Bad kitty....in the best possible way

OK....

E-con...*swatt* play nice.....

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

?????? , Interesting. Well, I've wasted as much of this day reading all these threads as I'm going too. Very interesting. The "tasers for the public" has some points. "Odd firearms order", make me wonder. And I don't know where to begin on the intelligent design thread. DAAAMMMN, I thought this one was long winded! But I noticed you used similar tactics there too. And marriage trouble, haha, I would give a buffalo nickel to meet your ex and get the real story. That, on top of "family doesn't support me.", reading between the lines, mini me is frightened. LOL Stupid midget!

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

Kat, I'm sorry but I've seen this kind of shit before. These people live these fucked lives and come in here and say whatever they want. Well, thats fine, but if he is going to turn this debate into a pissing contest that his end is full of holes, if not shit, then I'm going to make sure I am right before I go any further. I'm sorry. This really isn't about your thread here and I haven't posted anything that I have found so far since it has nothing to do with this post. BUT, I will be PM'ing zap when I do figure out what level of shit he is full of. :)

zap · texaschickeee translator

eltsacon wrote:

BUT, I will be PM'ing zap when I do figure out what level of shit he is full of. :)

Well aparently someone who is ashamed to have done so has given you a list of links to threads that I have posted in at O.com. Whatever.

That still has nothing to do with the points I have made here that you continue to try to avoid by attacking me personally, rather than dealing with them directly.

But...why are you afraid to post in public? No PMs are necessary.

zap · texaschickeee translator

eltsacon wrote:

Kat, I'm sorry but I've seen this kind of shit before.

Likewise

KatScratch · Bad kitty....in the best possible way

OK....Apologies accepted (from both).

That being said.....since the thread is now more of a one on one thing...I'll leave yah all to it...I'm outta here....

One thing though....I believe this is better done via PM's guys.....

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

agreed.

texaschickeee · Seductively Sassy

plushleather wrote:

You guys sure know how to beat a dead horse into the ground

zap · texaschickeee translator

KatScratch wrote:

One thing though....I believe this is better done via PM's guys.....

I don't think there is any need in it at all personally.

However, it appears that not everyone can deal with issues at hand. Instead of dealing with a person's ideas....they feel it best to attack the person hoping to direct attention away from the point they can't handle. Apparently....they also need help in doing so according to someone else here on the board.

I have yet to hear anyone give a SOLID, VALID reason why my points are not valid.

I'm still waiting.........

-- Edited by zap at 16:22, 2006-02-26

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

I'm sure you do, and I am sure you are.

Date: Feb 27, 2006

zap wrote:

scarecrow wrote: ESPECIALLY since you are using those "credentials" and "Titles" to give your information credibility. First off, your quotes were out of context. Those were in reply to certain things said to me. Would you want the opinion on YOUR brain surgery by some guy who stayed in the Holiday Inn Express and only said he MET a brain surgon once? Or would you rather listen and take advice from someone who had the training and experience (as evidenced by the certifications) in brain surgery? I think the rest of your response really answered that. Are you up to the challange of having a a REAL debate on the pro's and cons of gun related classes at the high school level? Always. Did you read what I wrote directly about that subject? Using logic, calm, reasoning, without attacking fellow debators???? Attacking and defending are two different things. Maybe you should re-read the thread. If you disagree with me ....thats cool....I"m a big boy. BUT, do not expect to attack my credibility when it is obvious you are are blowing your words out of your ass...and me just to ignore you. That has nothing to do with professionalism, which, I might add, is different in different professions. You are applying 'cop professionalism' for the street. We are not on the street here. Nor are we in the classroom. Others have said it and I agree...we are interested in hearing what you and others have to say, whether or not any of us agree with each other is irrelevent.. it doesn't make anyone of us more WRONG or more right than someone else in this thread. Good. I have said plenty trying to point out that it is not my certificates...but my certifications and expereince that give credibility to what I say. Maybe I didn't sugar coat it enough for you to like it.... <shrug> grow up and get over it. That does not make it inaccurate, discredited, or mistaken. Oh, and Zap... if you really wish to debate the certs, credibility, etc issues further.. start a thread and let me know where it is... I'll join you. Surf's up.... lets go!!! I don't know what debate you want to have. Credibility can be confirmed (much more often than not) by certificates of various things. The ONLY cert I brought up was the longevity of service. Which btw has nothing to do with how long it has been since I have taught a course. I skipped right over the certifications that confer the title of instructor for various things. I did briefly mention that you go through the wringer to get them...which you do. The fact is that just because I mentioned that I am certified in one or two areas, only was to let those I was answering know that I was not just forming an opinion based on helping with a course once, or meeting an instructor when I was 12. You would not know that unless I have told you that. You made an issue about my LE training. If I told you that I had 27 years on the street, and a portfolio of certifications 3 inches thick....that would mean something to you wouldn't it? Instead, I had only said (in response to a direct point) that I have received LE training in firearms, and that from my actual experience with kids in the classrooms, LE type firearms training is most certainly not geared to kids. Questioning my LE experience does not detract from my knowing how my LE academy handled firearms training. I was there, I did expereince it. If I never get a job in LE, that will not just expire and become a non-event or otherwise worthless. Similarly, when I last taught a class does not detract from the number of classes and hours I have spent teaching these very things to kids. I have said over and over. This is NOT about ME. It NEVER was. At least I did not make it so. The profesionalism of certified instructors in my state were being demeaned. That IS something I know about. To make the point that I DO know about this....I pointed out my experience an credentials in what should have been a nominal and only informational way. If you or anyone else wants to attack me on the grounds of my briefly mentioning my credentials in an only informative, background setting manner....so be it. It just shows everyone here you have nothing to attack my points or ideas on....so you wish to cloud the water and attack me personally. Have fun.
ZAP.. you are off the topic ... "take-it-outside"

Date: Feb 27, 2006

zap wrote:

eltsacon wrote: BUT, I will be PM'ing zap when I do figure out what level of shit he is full of. :) Well aparently someone who is ashamed to have done so has given you a list of links to threads that I have posted in at O.com. Whatever. That still has nothing to do with the points I have made here that you continue to try to avoid by attacking me personally, rather than dealing with them directly. But...why are you afraid to post in public? No PMs are necessary.

Zap.. why don't you open a new thread for the other stuff?????

ninjagirl · Lesbian with one exception

We had it in my school. I enjoyed it so much I took it 2 yrs in row. (aced it both times, you get a little badge...it WAS cool!!)

Anyway my favorite part was a long debate that ANY gun can kill. Including a watergun. (Aimed up the nose.)

Date: Feb 27, 2006

KatScratch wrote:

Finally! Some REAL imput!!!!! Scarecrow...great points in there! Also some things to think about (Gee, we might have a discussion in the midst of all the trash after all!). E-con, nice research. I too did some and asked a few "friends" of mine in local LE. They had mixed reactions to the piece on the news. One officer told me that he had been to some of the local schools (as an assembly and one-on-one class room) and talked to the children. He said he not only visited elementry schools, but jr. high and high school as well. He said the younger kids were easy to talk to because most had never seen a real gun before and just knew the concept that guns were "bad". But he said when he visited the jr, it was a much different story. He said the students were concerned for their own safety, some had been bullied, etc. He said the level of questions he fielded was much different than the elementry school children. And at the high school level, it was a whole nother ball park. He said some of them had carried guns before, been involved in shootings, etc. He even said at one school they had a "gun collection". I guess the kids could turn in their guns, no questions asked and they were given stuff like gameboys, computer games, passes to laser tag, etc.

Kat , were you able to find out what years he taught these classes, etc? How many years ago that was. Was there any follow up on the kids from the classes? This sounds great. Was this country? city? (I missed that if you already said that.. sorry)

I asked him if he had taken any special classes to be able to go and talk to these kids of varying ages....he said no, it just seemed like part of his job, to serve and protect.

Sounds like his teaching and serving come from the heart. I would bet his students can tell the difference too, and respond to his sincere caring.

I also spoke with a friend of mine in the military who referred me to a gentleman who is a retired marine. He spends time at schools talking to teens about guns and "awareness". He also teaches a safety and marksmanship class locally at a rec center. He goes over all the basic safety from what to do if you find a gun, history about guns, the sport of guns (marksmanship competitions, etc.), and gun training. He said most of the kids that come to him see guns "glorified" in the movies and such and really have no clue what it is really like to have to use one to defend.

Excellent. Well rounded and balanced program. It is common and natural for kids to glorify and fantasize about guns and how good they are going to be at it...Kids that have been promised that on xyz day they will be allowed to shoot a "real gun" will fantasize (glorify) and build up expectations as well. this is only human nature. Especially if dad or older sibliings, or uncles tend to to be gun oriented and that the child has the impression that he will have dad's, older subling's or uncles' approval and attention if the child goes in that direction as well. This class offers a significant balance of knowledge, from different approaches.

They have no idea the training and disappline involved in competitions, etc. When I asked where he learned to "teach"...he said it was what he learned in his many years in the Core. He said they taught him disapline, respect, and how to project this to others. He said it is actually very easy for him to talk about it because he believes it is worht sharing and maybe even making them see the respect that is needed towards guns as well as the concept that guns don't kill, it is the people holding them! (sounds very familiar...I believe that is in this thread...somewhere)

APPLAUSE!!!!

I also talked to an instructor at an area vocational training school who is teaching a criminal justice course and he said they are currently teaching gun safety and marksmanship training. You have to qualify to be in the class (which I think helps weed-out the students) and they don't get into this part of the class until the second year, by then he says you really have a feel for your students and the type of people they are. When I asked him about his background....he is an ex-marine, he was a police officer, he worked in the homicide dept., he has also worked security and swatt in his career. He retired and went into teaching after he was shot.....by a teen.....

This answers several more questions and points that were raised by several people.

Good job Kat. !!!!

More applause !!!

Date: Feb 27, 2006

ninjagirl wrote:

We had it in my school. I enjoyed it so much I took it 2 yrs in row. (aced it both times, you get a little badge...it WAS cool!!) Anyway my favorite part was a long debate that ANY gun can kill. Including a watergun. (Aimed up the nose.)

Wish we did. what was taught when you had it in school? what grade? The only thing we were allowed to take was archery.... but that was cool too.

I think if there was a class related to guns/safety/etc, that I would like to sit in on the class as well and my child. I would like to know what my child was being taught, and I am naturally curious and open to learning more. What do you think?

ninjagirl · Lesbian with one exception

It was an hour long video and they would pause and say stuff like would you shoot or not? then continue the video and show you that if you shoot across the lake you could hit the water and ricochet and hit the hunter that you didnt notice the first time around. In the end the tests were graded for a pass/fail kinda thing. Then QnA. And debates. I would highly recommend it.

zap · texaschickeee translator

NGJ... that is a film that is commonly used in hunter ed classes. I have used that film in nearly every class I've ever taught. The point of the Shoot, Don't Shoot film is to impress that if you don't have the right attitude, you will screw up.

(the right attitude was to not get all caught up in thinking only about bagging game etc, but to ALWAYS consider the consequences before you do something you can't undo)

Plush · Make believe Slutty Zombie/Official TOP Drama Queen

lmao. That's fuckin hilarious.

I was talkin about the pic, it didn't show up.

-- Edited by plushleather at 22:49, 2006-02-27

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

"lmao. That's fuckin hilarious.

I was talkin about the pic, it didn't show up.

-- Edited by plushleather at 22:49, 2006-02-27"

??????? Errrrrrrr. Did I miss something?

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

"Anyway my favorite part was a long debate that ANY gun can kill. Including a watergun. (Aimed up the nose.)"

LOL, ahhh yes, perspective! LOL

KatScratch · Bad kitty....in the best possible way

Scarecrow wrote:

Kat , were you able to find out what years he taught these classes, etc? How many years ago that was. Was there any follow up on the kids from the classes? This sounds great. Was this country? city? (I missed that if you already said that.. sorry)

He started doing this 8 or 9 years ago (from what he can remember) and he also said he has done assemblies/one-on-one classrooms in the elementry, Jr. High, and High School levels. He did say that some school systems have had him come back every 2-3 years and go through all three schools, so yes, he has seen some of the kids more than once and they remember him. He also mentioned that the programs change from year to year, grade level to grade level so the kids got more information geared toward their ages. He was a local police officer, but he said he knows a few guys/and girls in the Sherrif's Dept. (county level) that also do something similar. (When you asked country or city I hope you ment the schools location) He has visited inner city schools as well as your more country locations. He said there is definately noticeable differences between the two and the kids' reactions and questions.

Date: Feb 28, 2006

KatScratch wrote:
He started doing this 8 or 9 years ago (from what he can remember) and he also said he has done assemblies/one-on-one classrooms in the elementry, Jr. High, and High School levels. He did say that some school systems have had him come back every 2-3 years and go through all three schools, so yes, he has seen some of the kids more than once and they remember him. He also mentioned that the programs change from year to year, grade level to grade level so the kids got more information geared toward their ages. He was a local police officer, but he said he knows a few guys/and girls in the Sherrif's Dept. (county level) that also do something similar. (When you asked country or city I hope you ment the schools location) He has visited inner city schools as well as your more country locations. He said there is definately noticeable differences between the two and the kids' reactions and questions.

8 or 9 years... long enough to start tracking the results. wide variety of ages, locations, mentality and background of the kids. LOL I DID mean country vs city as in location... I would expect totally different outlook on the issues because of that aspect alone. ( a summary of this whole experience from and for him would be beneficial reading.)

Again, hats off to you... great research!

Date: Feb 28, 2006

eltsacon wrote:

?????? , Interesting. Well, I've wasted as much of this day reading all these threads as I'm going too. Very interesting. The "tasers for the public" has some points. "Odd firearms order", make me wonder. And I don't know where to begin on the intelligent design thread. DAAAMMMN, I thought this one was long winded! But I noticed you used similar tactics there too. And marriage trouble, haha, I would give a buffalo nickel to meet your ex and get the real story. That, on top of "family doesn't support me.", reading between the lines, mini me is frightened. LOL Stupid midget!

E-con go to debates->Zapped?!?!?!?!

eltsacon · I have seen USofA's big balls

Well, the world needs crazy people too. LOL To be honest, as long as we all waste our time in here, we can't really hurt anyone in the real world. LOL , at least I hope.