Abortion

USofAcop · Banned

RE: Abortion

Plush · Make believe Slutty Zombie/Official TOP Drama Queen

entre new wrote:

USofAcop wrote:
Now that I am HIV+, I still believe that we should be branded, but now in less public way.
How do you think you should be branded?

I didn't look for the original comment, so I will use your's Entre.

That is by far the stupidist thing I have heard come out of your mouth, Us. So instead of trying to teach people some responsisbility, you would rather treat them like, cattle. Maybe we should brand all the ladies that have had abortions too. There are people in the world who have HIV and did not come by it by being irresponsible. Why should they pay for it?

-- Edited by plushleather at 04:15, 2006-03-20

entre new · Et tu, Brute?

In regard to the money you pay to stay alive, I give you credit, but there are others who can't afford that and do need public assistance. There are also single mothers who are taking care of their responsibilities, as well as those who are on welfare. There will always be people who are able to take care of themselves and those who can't. In our society we take care of the ones who can't, and I think that's a good thing.

USofAcop · Banned

how are they "paying" for it?

Plush · Make believe Slutty Zombie/Official TOP Drama Queen

entre new wrote:

In regard to the money you pay to stay alive, I give you credit, but there are others who can't afford that and do need public assistance. There are also single mothers who are taking care of their responsibilities, as well as those who are on welfare. There will always be people who are able to take care of themselves and those who can't. In our society we take care of the ones who can't, and I think that's a good thing.

I was on assistance breifly at one point after I had my first child. I have usually always had a job and feel I had done my part to get back a little of what I had contributed. What burns me up is the people who don't need it and scam to get it. My apologies for off topic posts. Just seems like a good discussion.

Plush · Make believe Slutty Zombie/Official TOP Drama Queen

USofAcop wrote:

how are they "paying" for it?

By being marked. I am not talking about the physical part. The mental part. Having HIV has to be stressful enough alone, let alone feeling like you have done something wrong and been branded. Kinda reminds me of futuristic movies where the prisoners have id # tattooed on their heads. And yes I know. Not on the head. It is still degrading I think. Just my opinion.

USofAcop · Banned

Degrading, perhaps. But so is standing in line at the WIC office, but they line up there all the time.

The are EVIL people in this world who spread HIV knowingly just because they are pissed off at the world or whatever. It should be the right of everyone to be properly informed

USofAcop · Banned

BTW, how are these so called victims contracting the HIV virus thru no fault of their own?

Plush · Make believe Slutty Zombie/Official TOP Drama Queen

USofAcop wrote:

Degrading, perhaps. But so is standing in line at the WIC office, but they line up there all the time.
The are EVIL people in this world who spread HIV knowingly just because they are pissed off at the world or whatever. It should be the right of everyone to be properly informed

Ummm no. This once again comes down to taking some responsibility for you actions. If a person seems untrustworthy, walk away. And I know I can't change the world but, if people would take the time to get to know each other before jumping in the sack, well, we would all be a little better off right now I think. but yada yada that's just me.

Plush · Make believe Slutty Zombie/Official TOP Drama Queen

My fav line from Shawshank Redemption. "The world done went and got it's self in a big hurry." More time learning less unwanted babies and HIV patients.

USofAcop · Banned

plushleather wrote:

USofAcop wrote: Degrading, perhaps. But so is standing in line at the WIC office, but they line up there all the time. The are EVIL people in this world who spread HIV knowingly just because they are pissed off at the world or whatever. It should be the right of everyone to be properly informed Ummm no. This once again comes down to taking some responsibility for you actions. If a person seems untrustworthy, walk away. And I know I can't change the world but, if people would take the time to get to know each other before jumping in the sack, well, we would all be a little better off right now I think. but yada yada that's just me.

That I concur with you on.

Now that HIV is not the death sentence that it once was, I am sure the malicious spreading has slowed, but still I think that publics interest to be informed is paramount. For me, I know that I will not spread it by sexual contact. That simply will never be again. I do admit that I have been irresponsible in the past, and who knows how many lives I have fucked up.

Annual testing for ALL and easy identification is the only means of reducing the rate of spread because people can not control themselves.

-- Edited by USofAcop at 05:12, 2006-03-20

USofAcop · Banned

entre new wrote:

In regard to the money you pay to stay alive, I give you credit, but there are others who can't afford that and do need public assistance. There are also single mothers who are taking care of their responsibilities, as well as those who are on welfare. There will always be people who are able to take care of themselves and those who can't. In our society we take care of the ones who can't, and I think that's a good thing.

Sorry, missed your post in the middle of all of this. I agree to an extent, but when it becomes a generation after generation baby mill then there are issues. Again, poor planning causes a lot of these people to be in the position that they are in. Abortion is not a public health crisis.

cd3kd · Yummy

First sorry to hear about your HIV status.

I don't think that E-New was trying to bash gays she simply was trying to hit close to home while doing a parallel comparison.

Now answer the fucking question bitch.

entre new · Et tu, Brute?

Looks like you guys posted at the same time.

I'll agree about the "generation after generation baby mills". I just don't think that baby mills represent the whole abortion issue any more than the bathouses should be the focus of a discussion on AIDS. Both issues are far-reaching and can't be encompassed by sweeping statements, or by concentrating on the elements that make us most angry.

-- Edited by entre new at 05:20, 2006-03-20

cd3kd · Yummy

Yeah what she said...

USofAcop · Banned

entre new wrote:

I guess in an ideal world we would all have the willpower to avoid sex until we're married. Even then, some people would complain because they don't want to marry someone unless they know they're sexually compatible. You're lucky you don't have to worry about making babies. But what about the gay men who have AIDS? Should the public have to support them when they're disabled and pay for their medical care? Or do you say, "it is not my responsibility to support them because of their poor planning"?

Just for you CD3KD.

Tough question, that is why I avoided it and put all that other fluff in there.

My answer, support them and provide the proper medications until such a time as they are medically capible of returning to work. Then they are on their own.

I also think that the US GOVT should be taking charge of the HIV crisis by buying out or taking in interest of public health the patents and rights to the life sustaining medications. The GOVT should be on the forefront of research to cure this health crisis. There is no good reason on earth that these meds cost so damn much other then they are privately held, and the "supply and demand" issue. Sure, they spent a whole bunch of $$ to research and develope the drugs, of which a good chunk of it was GOVT Grants.

-- Edited by USofAcop at 05:14, 2006-03-20

-- Edited by USofAcop at 06:00, 2006-03-21

USofAcop · Banned

USofAcop wrote:

BTW, how are these so called victims contracting the HIV virus thru no fault of their own?

HHHHhhhmmmmm ????

cd3kd · Yummy

USofAcop wrote:

BTW, how are these so called victims contracting the HIV virus thru no fault of their own?

By not using condoms or sharing needles.

USofAcop · Banned

I can say that I have never shot up, and I can also say that I have always wrapped up. Look at me.

I was asking Plush tho, she had the opinion that there were innocent victims floating around out there.

entre new · Et tu, Brute?

I think Plush was referring to children born with the disease, those who contracted it through transfusions or people who got it from unfaithful spouses.

USofAcop · Banned

Those are the innocent.

Plush · Make believe Slutty Zombie/Official TOP Drama Queen

entre new wrote:

I think Plush was referring to children born with the disease, those who contracted it through transfusions or people who got it from unfaithful spouses.

The blood transfusions were what i was talking about. I was not avoiding. Just busy.This all goes back to your branding and that is the only point I am talking about. You got sick, you had a transfusion, U got HIV. Oh and hey, since you now know that your life is going to be cut short, can we brand you in your "business area"? I just think there is a more suttle way to identify HIV positive people. Didn't say I knew what, just has to be a better way.

SlowDownThere · usda prime

entre new wrote:

I guess in an ideal world we would all have the willpower to avoid sex until we're married. Even then, some people would complain because they don't want to marry someone unless they know they're sexually compatible. You're lucky you don't have to worry about making babies. But what about the gay men who have AIDS? Should the public have to support them when they're disabled and pay for their medical care? Or do you say, "it is not my responsibility to support them because of their poor planning"?

I'll retort.

First the issue of HIV/AIDS. This gets us to the ancient biblical question that Cain asked G-D, "Am I my brothers keeper?" From a Judeo-Christian point of view, the only correct answer is "Yes I am." I believe that we have a moral obligation to take care of each other. We have to do so in a way that does not encourage irresponsible behavior, but we must do so.

Second, society tells gays/lesbians that they cannot marry the person they love. Some even cynically reply that they have then right to marry, just someone of the opposite sex. Imagine (assuming your straight, because gays don't have to imagine this) that society told you that you cannot have sex before marriage, and you can only marry someone of the SAME SEX. Just imagine. Your choices are a life without any sex at all, or sex with someone you are not at all attracted to. Would you (to quote Entre New) "even then complan that they don't want to marry someone unless thet are sexually compatible."

Like I said, Gays/Lesbians don't have to imagine this. But you straights give it a try.

Bread Styx · Bad Bread!!

I am staying out of this debate......still too many icky feelings about what just happened to me.

US of A....I dont expect you to be all warm and fuzzy, nor give a damn about others feelings, but dont be such an insensitive clod. Whatever life has handed you that sucks.....I am sorry. You know I am. I think you are a nice guy who acts like a jerk sometimes to keep from getting hurt. Stop it.

Your "flush it" comment really hurt my feelings and brought back some memories I am trying to forget......because you are a man , you will never know what it is to actually see bits and pieces of you and another life literally flushed down the toilet just because a little something went wrong. You will never feel any guilt chewing at your heart because you dont know if you did something to make it happen......you will never feel that little pain in your heart when you see a baby with eyes that look a lot like yours and wonder if the baby you saw flushing down the toilet would have had your eyes.

There.....my contribution to this debate is done. Yes, US.....you made me cry with insensitive comment and for that, I forgive you. I am a big girl and crying is good.

KatScratch · Bad kitty....in the best possible way

Let me start by saying, USofA....you never cease to amaze me.....I don't think I have ever heard an HIV+ person take your stance before (except for one). Having had a family member die from Aides, I can say I am soooooo sorry and wish you the best. I know what you are saying about the cost of the "cocktail" they put you on as well. It is insane to ask someone in need, trying to save their life, to pay that much. Personally, i think it is their way of "thinning the numbers". I know that sounds very harsh, but think about it. With the numbers of those infected and at the later stages where working can be very difficult, they expect them to "find" the money to pay for life saving drugs on thier own????? It's bull! And as for the "tattoo" idea, I agree their needs to be some form of "awareness" for this problem. There are those out there that do knowingly spread HIV without care for the consequences (this is how my family member was infected). Yes, they have laws in effect that make the act a crime, but where is the prevention? Even if you wear a condom, shit happens, infections can still be passed. If you know ahead of time (if the person is honorable) then you actually have a choice and assume responsibility for any consequences there may be.

I have had this discussion with my husband before. The time is coming when everyone will have a little card they carry around that lists their medical history. People will just scan each other's card and know everything before they do the nasty! Less "hitler" than the tattoo idea I think.

Back on the original topic......If a woman wants to proclaim "her body, her decision"...then she is assuming ALL the responsibility. Don't want to get pregnant, take all the steps to protecting yourself: condoms (male and/or female), birthcontrol (pills, shot, patch, etc.), spermacide foams, IUD, etc. If you already have children and don't want anymore you can always get your tubes tied. It's a simple procedure these days (done as an outpatient). It doesn't decrease your sex drive or anything.....I do know that some Dr.'s are assholes and won't do it when the woman asks, but keep on them, demand it, eventually you will find a Dr. that will.

texaschickeee · Seductively Sassy

I was adopted at birth, before there was open adoption.

Im grateful not to have been aborted. Im even more grateful for the women whom gave me life gave me a chance to live a life that I would have NEVER HAD with her.

Both my brother and I were adopted the same way. I ahve no reason to look her up but he choose to. who whats to carry a child for 9 months to give them up, a selfless, loving women who loves that child regardless of how that child was made.

I totally agree with what KAt said, abortion should be limited due to you are termanating a life, and that life does have a voice,it just cant speak YET.

-- Edited by texaschickeee at 21:25, 2006-03-20

proudcowife · T.O.P. PIMP

ok I usually stay away from abortion topics its a touchy subject for me. I only agree with abortions duee to medical reasonings. That baby didi not ask to be made why should that baby get short ended?. IThere is adoption. Hell i would adopt her baby . I love babies and kids I cant ever imagine killing one ever in any way shape or form. When I went in to have my baby Emily I was in labor for 11 hrs then I had an emergency c-section due to the fact her heart rate was falling. They asked me who if there was a slight chance i wanted saved Emily or myself I said if anything should go wrong Save Emily I have lived my life. I would die for my baby . I know I am stronger then that my baby comes first. no questions asked. She is my entire world every time i look into her eyes and im thinking about a friend of mine i think how could anyone do that to there baby.

Ok as for an ex friend of mine.. Kelly we use to be very close . always together ect. Kelly got preg and had an abortion . I was upset with her she knew I would help her out. Well I talked to her about going on b c she said ok. Well after that kelly got preg 4 other times and had abortions. I was so sick and disgusted in her. I said you know thats what birth control is for she said well i didnt give that baby permission to be in my body. I said that is a piss pour excuse maybe if you quit whoring around. I went off on her and ended it then and there. We have not spoken since. I will not speak to her again she makes me sick to my stomach I cant be friends with someone who would do that over and over again. In my opinion its a child not a choice.

Wooo sorry needs a drink now.

laboo · Boobs

I have never wanted kids, in that respect I have taken every procausion not to make that mistake weither it be birth control, condom or both. I also have recently taken fuller measures by having my tubes tied. No, I do not agree with abortion! If I were raped or at greater health risk I believe its my right to take that route. I do not believe that abortion should be used as a birth control by any means. I also am not going to judge anyone for their decision. I have a couple of friends that have had an abortion. I can't say that I would not have had one if I had been in their shoes, because I don't know. I also believe that kids shouldn't have kids. I have a friend that works for Save A Life, the have children 11 yrs old comming in for preg. test. Yes, if someone wanted to talk to me because they are wanting to have an abortion I would listen, try to talk them out of it but the decision is theirs. I have heard a few storys that if I had been in thier shoes I would have done the same!

SlowDownThere · usda prime

PCW, I didn't know you had a child, I wouldn't have guessed it.

Congratulations.

zap · texaschickeee translator

proudcowife wrote:
she said well i didnt give that baby permission to be in my body. I said that is a piss pour excuse maybe if you quit whoring around. In my opinion its a child not a choice. Wooo sorry needs a drink now.

As if the child had the ability to make a choice. *shakinghishead* THAT is the kind of thinking that should be punished ....not rewarded

I think you did the right thing PCW